Episode 8 Transcript
Being in Partnership with a First Responder: Tips and Hardships ft. April Enriques and Mike Matlock
Episode Transcript
[MUSIC PLAYING]
[TEASER INTRO]
April Enriquez:
I think with each new chapter that life brings we have to redefine our roles in the relationship and allow ourselves permission to redefine.
Mike Matlock:
During that time, you can each help yourself with what you need to get to where you should be. It's just communicate at the right time. Don't hit him or her when they need that time Wait till they come back up, and then talk about it, you know.
Aimee Hanna:
Welcome to Remember Why You're Here, a podcast created by the Center for Innovation and Resources where we host conversations with experts in the field about what started their journey to do work around abuse and healing. CIR is a small nonprofit with big goals. We organize events aimed to fulfill our vision that all professionals who serve children, families, and communities will have the knowledge, skills, and training to act in a holistic and culturally responsive manner. To see more of what we do visit cirinc.org.
Crystal Cardenas:
April Enriquez, WordPop public relations founder is an award winning public relations and brand messaging expert. She's a 12 year PR veteran who teaches companies how to clearly communicate their value to the press and the public. In addition to being a business owner, cold brew smoothie enthusiast, and joy filled toddler mom, she is also married to a firefighter with La County Fire.
Mike Matlock is presently retired after 35 years in law enforcement. He spent most of his career at Oxnard police department. He worked in all divisions of the department, including supervising narcotics investigations, and then leading the special weapons and tactics team. He wrote and managed a number of state funded gang reduction grants.
After retiring from the police department, he ran the Oxnard City's Gang Intervention Program and was contracted by Ventura County Sheriff's Office to manage a Homeland Security Program for three years before retiring in earnest. He raised two children and a stepchild and currently resides with his wife, also retired police officer, in Arizona. Welcome, April, and Mike. thank you so much for joining us today.
OK, so, April, I want to ask. I know that you've been with your partner for a long time. And because I know you so well, I know that you knew him prior to him enrolling in the academy, right?
April Enriquez:
Yeah.
Crystal Cardenas:
So I just wanted to ask you, if the expectations that you had of him being a firefighter, if that matched and aligned with what you originally envisioned and to now what it's like?
April Enriquez:
Yeah, that's a great question. And I think initially it did. I knew he would be working a lot, getting called in on days off, that sort of thing. And at the time that he entered, we had just lived together for a short time prior to that. We had just got married. So we weren't-- while we had been dating a long time, we weren't like fully dependent on each other or fully intertwined. I was young and building my business and out there. And he was building-- going through the academy.
And so I think at first it didn't feel super hard because we weren't intertwined yet. And when it became more challenging is when we were more intertwined and had our first child. And then all of a sudden, I started having that thought of meet me in the middle, meet halfway, which isn't, in my opinion, a realistic perspective to have, when you're married to someone with a shift schedule like a fireman or a police officer.
And so what I've been learning is that I think with each new chapter that life brings, we have to redefine our roles in the relationship and allow ourselves permission to redefine. So not about the spouse at home doing 70 and them doing 30. Like you have to ditch all that. And that's really hard to do.
In fact, a couple weeks ago my husband walked in and he said, Oh, I heard this thing on a podcast about when you walk in the door, you can tell your spouse, hey, what's your number today? I'm at a 70% out of 100, but where are you? And I might say I'm a 72. And then we both accept that we're at a 70. Like no one has to make up that other part. And so I don't know if Brené Brown gets credit for that. I feel like that might have been a toolkit--
Crystal Cardenas:
I think that's Brené, yeah. I've heard that before. And I love that.
April Enriquez:
Yeah, and I hadn't actually heard of that. I've read her books, but it 's not a consistent practice that we always do. But we're trying to be mindful of that.
Crystal Cardenas:
As we have April raising little ones, how do you decide to trust someone? What are your internal like, OK, seems like a normal person, seems like not a criminal, seems like-- how do you get that level of trust?
Mike Matlock:
Well, there's a saying that cops don't believe anything they hear, and they only believe about half of what they see. A lot of the time I was coaching, I was working narcotics, and I really did come up an erroneous assumption that everybody either used narcotics or sold. Honestly, I don't trust anybody until they prove themselves. I think it's hard on the kids to understand more so than the spouse. Because they don't know why you're not letting them go do this, or hang out, and you want to know all about people they're with.
And they think you're just being a cop. And really, you're an aware parent that has been made aware of a lot of things, right. And I don't know the answer to that, other than I think to educate your children and your spouse about why you have these concerns. Don't just be hard on them. Cops, after they've been working for, I would say the 3 to five year period, they can get overly cynical. And it's like a cancer.
And so then they think they know it all because they're at that point where they have-- feel like everything has now kind of become a repetitious. I mean, they're all come in various forms but-- and they're confident, and we train them to be confident. Command presence is a huge part of being successful in the field. But they can get overly cynical. And then they start using it as an excuse for everything, right?
And they start being a hardass, or they start kind of the John Wayne syndrome. And then they start taking shortcuts because they're cynical. And it's just going to turn out this way anyway. And then they treat people poorly, they do. And I think it's part of their defense, but it's not good. It's not good. But a little cynicism, I think is just caution.
Crystal Cardenas:
April, what do you think-- so if we think about-- I want to ask you first how often do you worry about your spouse while he's working? So just like the nature of his job and it being that he could potentially be in danger, and how does that affect your daily life?
I think one of the biggest challenges of being in a relationship with a first responder is communication style, or a lack of communication. And I think there's been lots of instances where I don't even realize my husband's being cautious, or overprotective, because he's not telling me. So like this is a little silly example. But I have metal weight, you know, that I use to work out.
And he was always on me about put your weights away when you're done. Because I would leave them like in a little row on the carpet. And he's always put your weights away. I'm like, what is the deal? Like it was this little constant thing, right. And then finally, after months, I'm telling you like months, I go why are you so obsessed with this.
And he finally said, that he had a call and there was major trauma involving weights, hand weights, and with a kid. And I'm like, Oh, my gosh, why couldn't you have told me that like four months ago? I absolutely will put the weights away. I put them away every time now. And that's just a little example.
But I think that there's so many examples like that, that are just compounded in their minds. And if-- not that I need to know every detail, but those things would help me support him at home and then also protect our daughter and that sort of thing. So I think communication is helpful. And I think also knowing-- just like finding a way that works.
So when he started in the department, I was like, I'm nervous for you to tell me stuff. Like, I think you need an outlet. Like, I don't think I have the thick skin to be that person. Like, it freaks me out right. And so I kind of like-- and he knew that about me already that I'm kind of a squeamish person and whatever. And so that wall was sort of there from the beginning. But I think the detriment to that is that because there was the wall, then it was like no communication about what's going on almost.
Crystal Cardenas:
Right.
April Enriquez:
Right, and so what I am trying to work on is finding like where can we communicate. Maybe you don't need to tell me all the details, but at least I can support like where you're at, or the little things like the weight, like just tell me enough to be able to support you. Does that make sense?
Crystal Cardenas:
Yeah, totally. Because it almost feels like how could you truly be in a partnership, if you're not aware of what your spouse was doing for, what, 24, 36 hours of that week. Like, I can only imagine.
Mike Matlock:
That's why I think a lot of it we don't bring-- we try not to bring it home. Now in my second marriage, it was totally different because we were both police officers. We openly shared stories and didn't have to worry about that. But in my first marriage, it wasn't really like that. And I don't know that she was squeamish. But I know that, sometimes, you come home and you just need to get something off your chest. And it's usually not based on what you had seen. But maybe something you did.
Crystal Cardenas:
Have you found it beneficial to talk to other couples about your struggles, or is it something that you just keep to yourself all the time?
Mike Matlock:
I don't. Number one, almost all your friends are in law enforcement because everybody sees you a little different Oh, it's a cop. And so trying to open up to somebody about what you see, they don't even understand what you see. So to open up to them, you just wouldn't do it. You wouldn't do it.
And it's good to have a social life, but none of this came up. I think if you had other couples in the career, so they all know what you're all facing, that that probably would be beneficial. But first of all, you got to-- you have to understand it yourself before you and your spouse, before you try to then muddle through it with other couples.
Crystal Cardenas:
April?
April Enriquez:
I'm kind of with Mike. We don't like have conversations with other couples, really. There are, like I mentioned, there are some forums for spouses of first responders that I'm a part of, and they're very supportive groups. They are a little bit more vulnerable. I do think that because law enforcement tends to be a pride, there's strength in it.
And so I think even as spouses, we want to protect the strength image of our partner. You know what I mean? What's his rank? How busy is he? Where does he work? How long has he been on? Success is defined in that way for a lot of people in the first responder world. And while those are all attributes of someone who's working very hard, I personally would define strength in the field as someone who is serving and also able to still show up and be healthy and have a healthy mind and body.
In our family, personally, God is at the center. And so to me, like that's how I would define success for a first responder. It's going to take a lot of work, and I'm hoping that there's continued transformation, at least, around mental health, and physical health, and letting that define success in who you are.
Crystal Cardenas:
So, Mike, I really want to ask you, as someone who was in law enforcement and also had a spouse in law enforcement, what advice do you have for our listeners on what are things that they can do to cultivate positive and healthy relationships?
Mike Matlock:
I think you have to understand the dynamics of what's happening to you. And I didn't learn about this until probably halfway through my career. There's a saying, we have a front row seat to the greatest show on Earth because of the stuff you see. Some of it's the most funny stuff that you couldn't even make up. And some of it's the most God awful stuff you don't ever want to think about it again, right.
So it comes with a price. And that's why a lot of times when they're off work, they're not the greatest partner to be around. And so what I would say, when I learned about this, everybody that's a first responder needs to buy this book called Emotional Survival for Law Enforcement. And I'm sure it applies to the fire service too. It was written by Dr. Kevin Gilmartin. And he was a cop in Tucson for a long time, and then he got into behavioral analysis.
And he has come up with an explanation. It deals with biological homeostasis. So imagine a baseline, a horizontal straight line. And that's where your body should be, right? That's where you're healthy and happy. Well, when you're at work, and it'd be the same for firefighters, you're way up above that, because you're constantly at an emotional high, you know. I mean, adrenaline is flowing through you all the time-- all the time. And so when you're working, you're way up here all the time.
And then when you come home, your body wants to recover, OK. And so you're down here almost like in a state of depression, right? I'd come through the door, and I didn't want anybody to talk, right? Usually, it wasn't a problem because I've come on home at 3:00 AM. There ain't nobody to talk to. And that was good.
But if you come home after a day shift, you have heard people talk your whole shift, yelling, arguing, conflict, that you have to be on top. So when you come home, man, you just want-- well, they don't understand. And there is a very logical explanation that he puts forth that your body needs this time to recover to get back to normal.
And if you realize that and your spouse realizes that, then during that time, you can each help yourself with what you need to get to where you should be. It's just communicate at the right time. Don't hit him or her when they need that time. Wait till they come back up, and then talk about it. Let me go back to talking to other couples. If you practice that, and you had another couple that did that, I think that could be some really healthy interaction.
April Enriquez:
Now I was going to say really like that too because I think my husband puts a lot of pressure on himself to perform right when he gets home, like dad mode, family mode, and he like right away scoops up the daughter, trampoline, this, that. And so you know I think it also gives permission to the first responder, not just the family.
But the first responder to be like, that's OK if you need transition time, like we respect that. There's no pressure to do XYZ. Sometimes, it's hard to make that switch really fast, right, to mom mode, or wife mode from work mode. Because a lot of people will tease, like dad walks in and hand over the kid, like your turn, right? And so I think this kind of creates that space.
Mike Matlock:
With cops, the shift-- you're busier up to the shift ends. And then you're plunged into normal life, you know.
Crystal Cardenas:
April, did you want to give some advice around this? For me, at least, I've been trying to work on my own ways of having peace, right, independent, of requiring that of my husband. So for me, it's like movement, prayer, or whatever. And you know the saying, like, fill your cup so it overflows to everyone else. The more I can do that for myself, the more capacity I have to support my husband, love on him, support my daughter.
April Enriquez:
And so especially this past year, I've really prioritized finding that inner peace and then creating more capacity within myself. And then also building that trust at home and building that communication at home. I think the more that we can do that and instill that in our partner, maybe the safer they would feel or the more confident they would feel in asking for help at some point. So I feel like if you don't have that foundation of any sort of trust or openness, like how are you ever going to seek it.
Crystal Cardenas:
No, that's great I want to talk a little bit about the tipping point, right? And I think that we all know that first responders have a higher divorce rate. I've been at Sierra for 10 years. I've been doing training for 10 years. I have heard a lot of times people say, well, the department provides me resources, and I can just call them, right? Or I'll hear, the department will say that well we have a number they can call, and they can talk to someone.
But we know, one, it's difficult to identify when you're in that space, right. Like, to know I need help today, or my marriage is struggling, and this is it. Like, I either got to do something or we're not going to work out. And two, even when you do it, when you do identify that, it's to actually make the call is hard, right? Like, to make that first step of, OK, I got to find the number.
I got to make the call. Oh, you're not available today. So I got to schedule an appointment. And then two days go by, and you're like do I really need it because I think we're getting along today. I feel like I might not need it after all, right? Like, I know this is not new, right? So what suggestions do you have for encouraging your partner, or, Mike, your situation yourself as well to seek out services that are available to you?
Mike Matlock:
Yeah, well, I think you have to make it so accessible and so trusted that they will make the call, and all those normal things to procrastinate are gone. So what we did in Oxnard, we created a peer counselor program. And we took volunteers and from all aspects of the department, even dispatch, because that's a highly stressful environment. And we sent them away to training and then we tried to space them out on-- they're still doing their normal job-- this is just something that, they're an ear, that has had some training. And you don't even have to schedule it. So if they're on your shift, you just, hey, let's go get a cup of coffee. And they're not allowed to pass anything that said on to the administration. I guess, unless, it was life threatening. And that worked out pretty good. It took a while for people to understand the role.
And everybody had to understand that, hey, I got to get up from the desk for a minute for somebody needs to talk to me, or something like that. And then you wouldn't ask questions. You didn't want it to cause waves, right. So that worked out really good. And then another thing that worked out good for us later was there's this psychologist, Dr. Larry Bloom. He's out of Orange County.
We created a program where he would come talk quarterly to everybody in group. And we were at the time doing stress-- tactical stress training. So what we were trying to do is put our people through scenarios to where we take the surprise element and minimize it because we put them through this so many times that they're going to rely on that training and create a lot of muscle memory. And it was really working well.
Well, he took and added a psychological component to it preparing them for what their psyche is going to go through in this life threatening situation, not just how you react to protect yourself or somebody else, how you protect yourself emotionally afterwards. And so people really bonded with-- our people did. So they didn't have a hesitation to call him you have to have the resources readily acceptable and totally accepted by people who don't even think they need it so that when they do need it or they do realize they need it, they'll make themselves available to them.
Crystal Cardenas:
Do you guys have anything else you want to add or leave our listeners with?
Mike Matlock:
I think that's really important to first responders' health, and I think most of them do this because it's just inherent, but exercise, hard exercise. If you are not working hard at training physically, you're shorting yourself but you're shorting the people you're supposed to be protecting. Part of dealing with stress, a physical release is really helpful at relieving stress. So I would highly recommend that to those that aren't doing it.
Crystal Cardenas:
April?
April Enriquez:
I have a book recommendation as well called The Body Revelation by Alisa Keeton, and it's really fantastic. It is faith based, and she talks about metabolizing our emotions. And she talks about different levels of trauma and how you can use exercise and movement to move the trauma through.
The law of conservation of energy says that energy can neither be created nor destroyed. So what are you going to do with it? We have that energy in our bodies, we got to do something with it. So let's make it positive. Mitigating some chronic stress, inflammation, disease, all of the things that can come with storing that energy and trauma in your body.
Crystal Cardenas:
All right, well, thank you both so much for being on our episode today. We so appreciate it. I think that this is a conversation that has not had enough. And I think that people-- I know that people will start to have these conversations with their significant others with their peers because I think vulnerability leads to vulnerability.
And so I really want to thank you for that and for opening up this space for dialogue about things that are really challenging. And I hope that you continue to have these conversations with others that you lead that way of explaining to people and reminding others in your field that life is hard, trauma is real, and the helpers also need help. So thank you so much for the work that you do.
April Enriquez:
Thank you.
Mike Matlock:
Thank you, ladies, for having us. Appreciate bringing this conversation to light.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Aimee Hanna:
Thank you so much for listening to another episode of Remember Why You're Here. To access the transcript for this episode, and to learn more about what we do at CIR, please visit our website at cirinc.org. Until next time.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Listen to the episode here: https://linkpop.com/rwyh
Episode 8 Transcript
Being in Partnership with a First Responder: Tips and Hardships ft. April Enriques and Mike Matlock
Episode Transcript
[MUSIC PLAYING]
[TEASER INTRO]
April Enriquez:
I think with each new chapter that life brings we have to redefine our roles in the relationship and allow ourselves permission to redefine.
Mike Matlock:
During that time, you can each help yourself with what you need to get to where you should be. It's just communicate at the right time. Don't hit him or her when they need that time Wait till they come back up, and then talk about it, you know.
Aimee Hanna:
Welcome to Remember Why You're Here, a podcast created by the Center for Innovation and Resources where we host conversations with experts in the field about what started their journey to do work around abuse and healing. CIR is a small nonprofit with big goals. We organize events aimed to fulfill our vision that all professionals who serve children, families, and communities will have the knowledge, skills, and training to act in a holistic and culturally responsive manner. To see more of what we do visit cirinc.org.
Crystal Cardenas:
April Enriquez, WordPop public relations founder is an award winning public relations and brand messaging expert. She's a 12 year PR veteran who teaches companies how to clearly communicate their value to the press and the public. In addition to being a business owner, cold brew smoothie enthusiast, and joy filled toddler mom, she is also married to a firefighter with La County Fire.
Mike Matlock is presently retired after 35 years in law enforcement. He spent most of his career at Oxnard police department. He worked in all divisions of the department, including supervising narcotics investigations, and then leading the special weapons and tactics team. He wrote and managed a number of state funded gang reduction grants.
After retiring from the police department, he ran the Oxnard City's Gang Intervention Program and was contracted by Ventura County Sheriff's Office to manage a Homeland Security Program for three years before retiring in earnest. He raised two children and a stepchild and currently resides with his wife, also retired police officer, in Arizona. Welcome, April, and Mike. thank you so much for joining us today.
OK, so, April, I want to ask. I know that you've been with your partner for a long time. And because I know you so well, I know that you knew him prior to him enrolling in the academy, right?
April Enriquez:
Yeah.
Crystal Cardenas:
So I just wanted to ask you, if the expectations that you had of him being a firefighter, if that matched and aligned with what you originally envisioned and to now what it's like?
April Enriquez:
Yeah, that's a great question. And I think initially it did. I knew he would be working a lot, getting called in on days off, that sort of thing. And at the time that he entered, we had just lived together for a short time prior to that. We had just got married. So we weren't-- while we had been dating a long time, we weren't like fully dependent on each other or fully intertwined. I was young and building my business and out there. And he was building-- going through the academy.
And so I think at first it didn't feel super hard because we weren't intertwined yet. And when it became more challenging is when we were more intertwined and had our first child. And then all of a sudden, I started having that thought of meet me in the middle, meet halfway, which isn't, in my opinion, a realistic perspective to have, when you're married to someone with a shift schedule like a fireman or a police officer.
And so what I've been learning is that I think with each new chapter that life brings, we have to redefine our roles in the relationship and allow ourselves permission to redefine. So not about the spouse at home doing 70 and them doing 30. Like you have to ditch all that. And that's really hard to do.
In fact, a couple weeks ago my husband walked in and he said, Oh, I heard this thing on a podcast about when you walk in the door, you can tell your spouse, hey, what's your number today? I'm at a 70% out of 100, but where are you? And I might say I'm a 72. And then we both accept that we're at a 70. Like no one has to make up that other part. And so I don't know if Brené Brown gets credit for that. I feel like that might have been a toolkit--
Crystal Cardenas:
I think that's Brené, yeah. I've heard that before. And I love that.
April Enriquez:
Yeah, and I hadn't actually heard of that. I've read her books, but it 's not a consistent practice that we always do. But we're trying to be mindful of that.
Crystal Cardenas:
As we have April raising little ones, how do you decide to trust someone? What are your internal like, OK, seems like a normal person, seems like not a criminal, seems like-- how do you get that level of trust?
Mike Matlock:
Well, there's a saying that cops don't believe anything they hear, and they only believe about half of what they see. A lot of the time I was coaching, I was working narcotics, and I really did come up an erroneous assumption that everybody either used narcotics or sold. Honestly, I don't trust anybody until they prove themselves. I think it's hard on the kids to understand more so than the spouse. Because they don't know why you're not letting them go do this, or hang out, and you want to know all about people they're with.
And they think you're just being a cop. And really, you're an aware parent that has been made aware of a lot of things, right. And I don't know the answer to that, other than I think to educate your children and your spouse about why you have these concerns. Don't just be hard on them. Cops, after they've been working for, I would say the 3 to five year period, they can get overly cynical. And it's like a cancer.
And so then they think they know it all because they're at that point where they have-- feel like everything has now kind of become a repetitious. I mean, they're all come in various forms but-- and they're confident, and we train them to be confident. Command presence is a huge part of being successful in the field. But they can get overly cynical. And then they start using it as an excuse for everything, right?
And they start being a hardass, or they start kind of the John Wayne syndrome. And then they start taking shortcuts because they're cynical. And it's just going to turn out this way anyway. And then they treat people poorly, they do. And I think it's part of their defense, but it's not good. It's not good. But a little cynicism, I think is just caution.
Crystal Cardenas:
April, what do you think-- so if we think about-- I want to ask you first how often do you worry about your spouse while he's working? So just like the nature of his job and it being that he could potentially be in danger, and how does that affect your daily life?
I think one of the biggest challenges of being in a relationship with a first responder is communication style, or a lack of communication. And I think there's been lots of instances where I don't even realize my husband's being cautious, or overprotective, because he's not telling me. So like this is a little silly example. But I have metal weight, you know, that I use to work out.
And he was always on me about put your weights away when you're done. Because I would leave them like in a little row on the carpet. And he's always put your weights away. I'm like, what is the deal? Like it was this little constant thing, right. And then finally, after months, I'm telling you like months, I go why are you so obsessed with this.
And he finally said, that he had a call and there was major trauma involving weights, hand weights, and with a kid. And I'm like, Oh, my gosh, why couldn't you have told me that like four months ago? I absolutely will put the weights away. I put them away every time now. And that's just a little example.
But I think that there's so many examples like that, that are just compounded in their minds. And if-- not that I need to know every detail, but those things would help me support him at home and then also protect our daughter and that sort of thing. So I think communication is helpful. And I think also knowing-- just like finding a way that works.
So when he started in the department, I was like, I'm nervous for you to tell me stuff. Like, I think you need an outlet. Like, I don't think I have the thick skin to be that person. Like, it freaks me out right. And so I kind of like-- and he knew that about me already that I'm kind of a squeamish person and whatever. And so that wall was sort of there from the beginning. But I think the detriment to that is that because there was the wall, then it was like no communication about what's going on almost.
Crystal Cardenas:
Right.
April Enriquez:
Right, and so what I am trying to work on is finding like where can we communicate. Maybe you don't need to tell me all the details, but at least I can support like where you're at, or the little things like the weight, like just tell me enough to be able to support you. Does that make sense?
Crystal Cardenas:
Yeah, totally. Because it almost feels like how could you truly be in a partnership, if you're not aware of what your spouse was doing for, what, 24, 36 hours of that week. Like, I can only imagine.
Mike Matlock:
That's why I think a lot of it we don't bring-- we try not to bring it home. Now in my second marriage, it was totally different because we were both police officers. We openly shared stories and didn't have to worry about that. But in my first marriage, it wasn't really like that. And I don't know that she was squeamish. But I know that, sometimes, you come home and you just need to get something off your chest. And it's usually not based on what you had seen. But maybe something you did.
Crystal Cardenas:
Have you found it beneficial to talk to other couples about your struggles, or is it something that you just keep to yourself all the time?
Mike Matlock:
I don't. Number one, almost all your friends are in law enforcement because everybody sees you a little different Oh, it's a cop. And so trying to open up to somebody about what you see, they don't even understand what you see. So to open up to them, you just wouldn't do it. You wouldn't do it.
And it's good to have a social life, but none of this came up. I think if you had other couples in the career, so they all know what you're all facing, that that probably would be beneficial. But first of all, you got to-- you have to understand it yourself before you and your spouse, before you try to then muddle through it with other couples.
Crystal Cardenas:
April?
April Enriquez:
I'm kind of with Mike. We don't like have conversations with other couples, really. There are, like I mentioned, there are some forums for spouses of first responders that I'm a part of, and they're very supportive groups. They are a little bit more vulnerable. I do think that because law enforcement tends to be a pride, there's strength in it.
And so I think even as spouses, we want to protect the strength image of our partner. You know what I mean? What's his rank? How busy is he? Where does he work? How long has he been on? Success is defined in that way for a lot of people in the first responder world. And while those are all attributes of someone who's working very hard, I personally would define strength in the field as someone who is serving and also able to still show up and be healthy and have a healthy mind and body.
In our family, personally, God is at the center. And so to me, like that's how I would define success for a first responder. It's going to take a lot of work, and I'm hoping that there's continued transformation, at least, around mental health, and physical health, and letting that define success in who you are.
Crystal Cardenas:
So, Mike, I really want to ask you, as someone who was in law enforcement and also had a spouse in law enforcement, what advice do you have for our listeners on what are things that they can do to cultivate positive and healthy relationships?
Mike Matlock:
I think you have to understand the dynamics of what's happening to you. And I didn't learn about this until probably halfway through my career. There's a saying, we have a front row seat to the greatest show on Earth because of the stuff you see. Some of it's the most funny stuff that you couldn't even make up. And some of it's the most God awful stuff you don't ever want to think about it again, right.
So it comes with a price. And that's why a lot of times when they're off work, they're not the greatest partner to be around. And so what I would say, when I learned about this, everybody that's a first responder needs to buy this book called Emotional Survival for Law Enforcement. And I'm sure it applies to the fire service too. It was written by Dr. Kevin Gilmartin. And he was a cop in Tucson for a long time, and then he got into behavioral analysis.
And he has come up with an explanation. It deals with biological homeostasis. So imagine a baseline, a horizontal straight line. And that's where your body should be, right? That's where you're healthy and happy. Well, when you're at work, and it'd be the same for firefighters, you're way up above that, because you're constantly at an emotional high, you know. I mean, adrenaline is flowing through you all the time-- all the time. And so when you're working, you're way up here all the time.
And then when you come home, your body wants to recover, OK. And so you're down here almost like in a state of depression, right? I'd come through the door, and I didn't want anybody to talk, right? Usually, it wasn't a problem because I've come on home at 3:00 AM. There ain't nobody to talk to. And that was good.
But if you come home after a day shift, you have heard people talk your whole shift, yelling, arguing, conflict, that you have to be on top. So when you come home, man, you just want-- well, they don't understand. And there is a very logical explanation that he puts forth that your body needs this time to recover to get back to normal.
And if you realize that and your spouse realizes that, then during that time, you can each help yourself with what you need to get to where you should be. It's just communicate at the right time. Don't hit him or her when they need that time. Wait till they come back up, and then talk about it. Let me go back to talking to other couples. If you practice that, and you had another couple that did that, I think that could be some really healthy interaction.
April Enriquez:
Now I was going to say really like that too because I think my husband puts a lot of pressure on himself to perform right when he gets home, like dad mode, family mode, and he like right away scoops up the daughter, trampoline, this, that. And so you know I think it also gives permission to the first responder, not just the family.
But the first responder to be like, that's OK if you need transition time, like we respect that. There's no pressure to do XYZ. Sometimes, it's hard to make that switch really fast, right, to mom mode, or wife mode from work mode. Because a lot of people will tease, like dad walks in and hand over the kid, like your turn, right? And so I think this kind of creates that space.
Mike Matlock:
With cops, the shift-- you're busier up to the shift ends. And then you're plunged into normal life, you know.
Crystal Cardenas:
April, did you want to give some advice around this? For me, at least, I've been trying to work on my own ways of having peace, right, independent, of requiring that of my husband. So for me, it's like movement, prayer, or whatever. And you know the saying, like, fill your cup so it overflows to everyone else. The more I can do that for myself, the more capacity I have to support my husband, love on him, support my daughter.
April Enriquez:
And so especially this past year, I've really prioritized finding that inner peace and then creating more capacity within myself. And then also building that trust at home and building that communication at home. I think the more that we can do that and instill that in our partner, maybe the safer they would feel or the more confident they would feel in asking for help at some point. So I feel like if you don't have that foundation of any sort of trust or openness, like how are you ever going to seek it.
Crystal Cardenas:
No, that's great I want to talk a little bit about the tipping point, right? And I think that we all know that first responders have a higher divorce rate. I've been at Sierra for 10 years. I've been doing training for 10 years. I have heard a lot of times people say, well, the department provides me resources, and I can just call them, right? Or I'll hear, the department will say that well we have a number they can call, and they can talk to someone.
But we know, one, it's difficult to identify when you're in that space, right. Like, to know I need help today, or my marriage is struggling, and this is it. Like, I either got to do something or we're not going to work out. And two, even when you do it, when you do identify that, it's to actually make the call is hard, right? Like, to make that first step of, OK, I got to find the number.
I got to make the call. Oh, you're not available today. So I got to schedule an appointment. And then two days go by, and you're like do I really need it because I think we're getting along today. I feel like I might not need it after all, right? Like, I know this is not new, right? So what suggestions do you have for encouraging your partner, or, Mike, your situation yourself as well to seek out services that are available to you?
Mike Matlock:
Yeah, well, I think you have to make it so accessible and so trusted that they will make the call, and all those normal things to procrastinate are gone. So what we did in Oxnard, we created a peer counselor program. And we took volunteers and from all aspects of the department, even dispatch, because that's a highly stressful environment. And we sent them away to training and then we tried to space them out on-- they're still doing their normal job-- this is just something that, they're an ear, that has had some training. And you don't even have to schedule it. So if they're on your shift, you just, hey, let's go get a cup of coffee. And they're not allowed to pass anything that said on to the administration. I guess, unless, it was life threatening. And that worked out pretty good. It took a while for people to understand the role.
And everybody had to understand that, hey, I got to get up from the desk for a minute for somebody needs to talk to me, or something like that. And then you wouldn't ask questions. You didn't want it to cause waves, right. So that worked out really good. And then another thing that worked out good for us later was there's this psychologist, Dr. Larry Bloom. He's out of Orange County.
We created a program where he would come talk quarterly to everybody in group. And we were at the time doing stress-- tactical stress training. So what we were trying to do is put our people through scenarios to where we take the surprise element and minimize it because we put them through this so many times that they're going to rely on that training and create a lot of muscle memory. And it was really working well.
Well, he took and added a psychological component to it preparing them for what their psyche is going to go through in this life threatening situation, not just how you react to protect yourself or somebody else, how you protect yourself emotionally afterwards. And so people really bonded with-- our people did. So they didn't have a hesitation to call him you have to have the resources readily acceptable and totally accepted by people who don't even think they need it so that when they do need it or they do realize they need it, they'll make themselves available to them.
Crystal Cardenas:
Do you guys have anything else you want to add or leave our listeners with?
Mike Matlock:
I think that's really important to first responders' health, and I think most of them do this because it's just inherent, but exercise, hard exercise. If you are not working hard at training physically, you're shorting yourself but you're shorting the people you're supposed to be protecting. Part of dealing with stress, a physical release is really helpful at relieving stress. So I would highly recommend that to those that aren't doing it.
Crystal Cardenas:
April?
April Enriquez:
I have a book recommendation as well called The Body Revelation by Alisa Keeton, and it's really fantastic. It is faith based, and she talks about metabolizing our emotions. And she talks about different levels of trauma and how you can use exercise and movement to move the trauma through.
The law of conservation of energy says that energy can neither be created nor destroyed. So what are you going to do with it? We have that energy in our bodies, we got to do something with it. So let's make it positive. Mitigating some chronic stress, inflammation, disease, all of the things that can come with storing that energy and trauma in your body.
Crystal Cardenas:
All right, well, thank you both so much for being on our episode today. We so appreciate it. I think that this is a conversation that has not had enough. And I think that people-- I know that people will start to have these conversations with their significant others with their peers because I think vulnerability leads to vulnerability.
And so I really want to thank you for that and for opening up this space for dialogue about things that are really challenging. And I hope that you continue to have these conversations with others that you lead that way of explaining to people and reminding others in your field that life is hard, trauma is real, and the helpers also need help. So thank you so much for the work that you do.
April Enriquez:
Thank you.
Mike Matlock:
Thank you, ladies, for having us. Appreciate bringing this conversation to light.
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Aimee Hanna:
Thank you so much for listening to another episode of Remember Why You're Here. To access the transcript for this episode, and to learn more about what we do at CIR, please visit our website at cirinc.org. Until next time.
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Listen to the episode here: https://linkpop.com/rwyh
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